Would anyone who is in the know be able to tell me if my trading a taxable activity? ie Return any gain on investment. Claim any losses. Obviously would need to know the opening and closing balances of my portfolio and amount deposited for the financial year. Anyone want to take a stab? :o /forum/read.php?14,3992,3992#msg-3992 Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:48:02 +0000 Phorum 5.2.20 /forum/read.php?14,3992,12597#msg-12597 /forum/read.php?14,3992,12597#msg-12597
Per the iPredict Terms of Service s1.i.: "..the contracts traded are treated as futures contracts under New Zealand law, in order to provide certainty as to the legal treatment of the contracts."

My brief consultation with Staples Tax Guide 2011 plus a quick Google suggests these are therefore Financial Arrangements (see 470.20 in Staples for a wordy definition), and don't seem to fit under any of the excepted financial arrangements (470.25 in Staples). Most/all people here will be cash basis persons (470.75 in Staples) and therefore "the income or expenditure is returned on a cash receipts or cash payments basis." So if you pay $100 in and close out and withdraw $200, you return $100 of income on your IR3.

Please note that this is a hastily thrown together look at it and doesn't constitute advice, should not be relied on blah blah blah.]]> Oblongmana Rants, Raves, Off Topic Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:37:58 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9558#msg-9558 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9558#msg-9558 andrew93 Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sun, 24 Oct 2010 01:59:46 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9552#msg-9552 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9552#msg-9552
I'm not arguing for or against it being taxed, merely that the IRD is perhaps unlikely to declare that it should be if there is nothing in it for them. They may, however, take an interest once a few loss-makers start claiming...]]> Scott Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 23 Oct 2010 22:06:07 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9545#msg-9545 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9545#msg-9545
Generally if the income is taxable then the related expenses (including losses) are deductible.


There is a good chance it would be taxable but it depends on the context.

Firstly I very much doubt that it's going to meet the definition of a hobby for tax purposes. Especially if your hobby is buying and selling futures with the intention of profiting, (regardless of how you enjoy it and only do it in you spare time).

Secondly it could depend on how realise the gain. If you hold your contract until it closes then it might be considered gambling. It effectively no different than going down to the TAB and putting a bunch on money on the All Blacks to beat Japan next time they play. Gambling is not taxable because then gambling losses would be deducible and that just won't work out for the government.

But if you buy a future with the intention of selling it to make a profit then your likely to cop some taxes. Its sort of a sneaky tax that is capital in nature where your liable if profiting from the sale of something was your intention from the start.

And then for the people that take this to an extreme, significant time and effort and resources applied and what not might be considered to be running a business and that is going to be taxed for sure.

Overall with most of us only dealing with a net-worth of a few $100 at best I doubt the tax consequences would be a problem but with ipredict registered under security legislation I'd say any real money is probably going to be considered taxable.]]> spartan1178 Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 23 Oct 2010 03:57:41 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9015#msg-9015 /forum/read.php?14,3992,9015#msg-9015 smo82 Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 09 Oct 2010 03:06:22 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7271#msg-7271 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7271#msg-7271 www.mcleanandco.co.nz]

Intention to make a profit = Not a hobby]]> jmvm Rants, Raves, Off Topic Fri, 18 Jun 2010 05:02:09 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7243#msg-7243 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7243#msg-7243 TheDaybreakBoy Rants, Raves, Off Topic Wed, 16 Jun 2010 02:53:58 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7071#msg-7071 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7071#msg-7071 Honkyghost Rants, Raves, Off Topic Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:57:03 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7051#msg-7051 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7051#msg-7051 mc2001 Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sun, 06 Jun 2010 23:52:23 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7049#msg-7049 /forum/read.php?14,3992,7049#msg-7049 Honkyghost Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:10:38 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,6835#msg-6835 /forum/read.php?14,3992,6835#msg-6835
The difference is between activities carried on with the intention of making a profit and activities where the receipts merely defray the expenses incurred in carrying out the activity. You look at the scale and volume of transactions, the investment of time and effort, etc etc.

But like everyone says, consult your tax professional. For your purposes I am making all this up off the top of my head. All information provided for entertainment purposes only.

Also I wouldn't describe your iPredict shares as "capital", since you probably bought them with the intention of selling them off, which would put them in your revenue account. Which is why stock market traders pay tax.]]> TheDaybreakBoy Rants, Raves, Off Topic Wed, 26 May 2010 04:59:16 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4996#msg-4996 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4996#msg-4996 CJ Rants, Raves, Off Topic Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:11:50 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4025#msg-4025 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4025#msg-4025
While admin is obviously right (i.e. consult your tax professional if you really want to know the answer, and don't rely on dodgy "advice" from some person you've never met on a forum - including me), I would be very suprised if iPredict gains of whatever kind are not taxable. Dividends (and for that matter, gains made from trading) seem to have the characteristics of "income" as that word is defined under NZ tax law. The other interesting question would be at what point the gains would be taxable (assuming that I'm right, and they are).

While I doubt that IRD would start rounding up all traders, I would probably be a bit concerned about this issue if I were one of the top traders. I imagine they would be first on the list if IRD started taking an interest.

I would be interested to hear the views of a chartered accountant on this. I'm sure there must be one here somewhere!]]> curb Rants, Raves, Off Topic Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:30:08 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4021#msg-4021 /forum/read.php?14,3992,4021#msg-4021 admin Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:29:14 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3994#msg-3994 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3994#msg-3994
But sweet you've convinced me & I'm happy.]]> LaxTrade Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:21:22 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3993#msg-3993 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3993#msg-3993 sleemanj Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 14 Nov 2009 06:19:24 +0000 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3992#msg-3992 /forum/read.php?14,3992,3992#msg-3992
ie Return any gain on investment. Claim any losses.

Obviously would need to know the opening and closing balances of my portfolio and amount deposited for the financial year.

Anyone want to take a stab? :o]]> LaxTrade Rants, Raves, Off Topic Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:36:06 +0000